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114: Cathy Erway: Eating In and The Food of Taiwan

March 16, 2016 by Gabriel Leave a Comment

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about committing to not eating out in New York.
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Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about Eating In and The Food of Taiwan.

Not Eating Out in New York

From 2006 to 2008, Cathy made a commitment to stay away from eating out in restaurants, having street food and take out, so she could explore other avenues of not eating out. She wrote a book about her experience called, The Art of Eating In. More recently, Cathy published a cookbook that looked into her mother’s home cooking roots called, The Food of Taiwan. In addition to her writing, Cathy has been interviewing guests on her weekly podcast, Eat Your Words, on Heritage Radio Network since 2009.

I’m so happy to have Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York with me here on the show today.

(*All photos below are Cathy’s.)

On Committing to Not Eating Out in New York:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about committing to not eating out in New York.

It was a series of frustrations, like a bad restaurant meal here and there. Who hasn’t had that and then felt like, “Gosh, I could make something much better. Let me just figure out how to get into the habit of it.” I think that’s the hard part, is getting into the habit of it. It’s a routine switch rather than like a food or…I think it’s eating preference for many people. So that happened. And then at the same time I wanted to start a food blog. At this time, 2006, most of the websites and blogs that I saw were all about restaurant gossip, the hottest new chef, this opening, that closing, and all that stuff.

I wanted to do something different because I didn’t think that food has to be about the industry of restaurants necessarily, which is fun, but I also didn’t have the budget for it, too. Who does? When you’re young and you’re into food and you drop $50 plus on a meal. So I decided to make my blog about home cooking. And then I want to give myself a challenge and give the blog something new to talk about.

On Things She Had to Get Used to With This Project:

Well, the social dilemmas of not eating out in New York were actually some of the most fun adventures that I had. But you have to try to bring people together in a communal situation that doesn’t have to do with restaurants. So that meant for me at the time, potlucks, dinner parties. And then I got really into throwing cook-offs and going to them and participating in all sorts of community events. There were supper clubs and all these really fun, amazing, community events to do. So that became my social life, and I met a lot of my friends through those.

On Dumpster Diving:

I wanted to explore all the ins and outs of what not eating out in New York meant. I was interested in foraging in the park. I learned that many people were doing this, gathering dandelion greens for a salad and this and that. I also heard about freeganism. The concept is basically reusing.

So if you have ever picked up some books that you saw on the street or a chair, this is pretty much like that, except its good food that is being wasted by a supermarket or maybe it’s a restaurant or something like that. But for the most part the freegan circles that I ran into and explored and went on walks and trash diving, it was supermarkets and also bakeries, too. Bakeries have so much leftover at the end of the day. If you walk into a nice bakery and you see all those bagels or croissants or something, at the end of day, they’re going into a dumpster.

On Her Book, The Art of Eating In:

I was writing the blog, Not Eating Out In New York, for a couple of years when I got approached by agents. And at that point I didn’t have an idea for a book. Cookbook didn’t seem quite right, but the agent wanted me to write a memoir, but I didn’t really have the story yet. I felt like I was just getting into it, I was just learning about all these interesting communities like a freegan. So, I wasn’t quite there yet. I really sat on the idea for about a year or so until I began writing this book.

It was great. It was definitely written almost in real time too, but it pushed me to explore more folks who were doing really interesting things with food.

On What She Enjoys About Eating In:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about what she enjoys about eating in.

I think that people have this misconception like it’s really lonely and it’s sad and they have this image of a person in their small insufficient kitchen with their insufficient cookware and so forth. So to get started, I would have a dinner party with a few good friends who you don’t mind just getting a little messy in the kitchen with, and maybe messing up some dishes with.

And you’ll see it’s a lot of fun. And what will happen usually is that it becomes this domino effect and your other friends will want to host the dinner next, and then, you will go from there. You’ll want to also improve upon something that you made last time. So it has an infectious quality to it. I think that’s a fun way to really get into cooking.

The funny thing is that the habit actually is easier once you’re cooking more often because you have not only just more know-how about what works when you’re cooking, but you have all these leftover odds and ends in your fridge. It actually becomes easier to just heat up that rice and then make fried rice with half a head of broccoli and something else rather than order out. So convenience, it can actually happen more often when you’re cooking.

On Her Book, The Food of Taiwan:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about writing her book, The Food of Taiwan.

It took a long time, a lot longer than I thought. So The Food of Taiwan I think is something that a lot of folks who are interested in food would find super delicious and interesting. All the flavors that go into this wonderful tropical island and all the cultures that have contributed to it is really interesting. It’s where my mother grew up. But growing up and even to this day as a young person in New York, little is talked about with regards to Taiwan and especially Taiwanese food.

When I was shopping this book around originally, this was in 2011. In fact, a lot of awkward conversations would arise when people just didn’t really know what Taiwan was or where it was or why we should talk about the food of Taiwan, like, “How is it different from other Chinese food?” I would hear all the time, and I’m like, well, people are starting to understand a little bit more about the different regions throughout Asia, not just in China, and it’s also catching on in restaurants.

You see people getting into Thai food, you see people getting into Korean food, you see all sorts of niches. So it took a lot of convincing and a lot of patience and perseverance, but finally we made it happen.

On The Hardest Part About Writing The Book:

The hardest part for me was choosing about 100 recipes that I felt would really exemplify Taiwanese food. Because I don’t really have much of a precedent to go on. This is why I was hoping it would be the most comprehensive English language cookbook about Taiwanese food. I have seen some cookbooks in Taiwan, of course, but they tend to be street foods or home style foods, and I wanted to combine both home style and street food to show what is really celebrated on the island right now in food.

That was really difficult for me to whittle it down to 100 recipes and what’s the right one and all that stuff, and then of course, write all the recipes for it. My favorite part, of course, was writing the intro and the culture and the history lessons in it.

On What a Traditional Taiwanese Meal Would Look Like:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about what a traditional Taiwanese meal would look like.

Taiwanese are actually really seasonal and they take pride in local specialties and seasonal specialties. So it really depends on the time of the year. For instance, people love really fresh, pure and not overly seasoned specialties like fresh bamboo shoots. You wouldn’t want to mess with that with too much sauce or anything like that. You just want to taste that purity of the wonderful ingredient.

Or it could be bitter melon, for instance, something really pure. So I think that to harmonize with the meal, you want one really shining star vegetable like that on the plate. And I would say that you would want a nice rich heavy meat. There’s a lot of pork belly used in Taiwan and they do it very, very well. I would do like a red braised pork belly, nice little dish. You would also typically serve that with something a little sour and piquant, like maybe some pickles, pickled cabbage, for instance, nice little crunch and contrast.

And then I would do maybe a more simmered, braised dish. So three-cup chicken is really great or three-cup squid, which is similar. And this is a clay pot simmered dish with lots of ginger, garlic, and chilies and basil at the end. With those three things, I think you can have a wonderful meal, just right there.

On Some Common Ingredients in Taiwanese Cooking:

I think that one thing they do have a lot of is little fried shallots, which is an excellent garnish. They’re crunchy and they add a little savory topping to anything. It could just be a pile of sauteed greens. Sprinkle those on or some crushed peanuts would do a similar trick. White pepper is pretty widely used in dishes and five-spice powder, but that’s more to marinate things or cook into a stew. Aside from that, there’s really not that many crazy ingredients. This is not a too heavily spiced cuisine, it is not ultra spicy, it is not ultra sweet, you don’t need all these crazy tastes. So it’s pretty accessible.

On Her Podcast:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about her podcast, Eat Your Words.

Heritage Radio Network is a wonderful nonprofit podcast radio station. At first it was just a really random outgrowth of Heritage Foods USA. And our station was and still is at a little converted shipping container in the backyard of Roberta’s Pizza in Bushwick, Brooklyn. So over the years, that little shipping container has gotten heat and air conditioning. We have also become an actual nonprofit and we have many more shows than what was the case when the station began in 2009. I think there were like five shows.

I happened to be a guest Snacky Tunes with Greg and Darin Bresnitz. And then I had this idea for a show. After one conversation, it just happened and it’s been going since. It’s been really fun. I find it a great way to talk to people.

On Some of Her Favorite Podcast Episodes:

One of my favorite heroes in food Sandor Ellix Katz joined us for an episode. He wrote, The Art of Fermentation and Wild Fermentation. He’s just such an amazing brain. It was so great to get him on air. So definitely check that out. And I really enjoyed interviewing an old female restaurateur legend named Nora Pouillon, and she opened the first certified organic restaurant in the 70s. She was just a real pioneer in the food movement. So it was lovely to have her on air. She talked about her memoir.

In the past, the show has taken so many twists and turns. So nowadays I focus on food and books as the premise. But in the past, I used to focus on food and dating. So if you scroll down throughout the archives, you’ll see some fun ones.

The Pressure Cooker:

Which food shows or cooking shows do you watch?

I don’t really watch any. Sorry.

What are some food blogs or food websites we have to know about?

I would say go to No Recipes, Marc Matsumoto is awesome. I’ve always liked Food52, I love Amanda and Merrill. And Chitra Agrawal, the ABCD’s of Cooking is my girl. So definitely check her out.

Who do you follow on Pinterest, Instagram, or Facebook or Snapchat that make you happy?

There are so many Twitter accounts out there and they always make me happy when people are joking about this and that. Lucky Peach has some good posts. I’ll give them that credit for it and they have some great photos too. So let’s say Lucky Peach.

What is the most unusual or treasured item in your kitchen?

Well, I do have these old molds that you’re supposed to put mooncakes in and I love them. I don’t really use them because they’re beautifully hand carved wooden molds with all of these ornate patterns. They would show up on a mooncake on the surface. I actually tried to use them but the dough gets stuck, but I love having them around. I usually put something inside and just leave it there, but yeah, they’re just beautiful old cooking tools.

Name one ingredient you used to dislike but now you love.

For me that would be cheese. I am still trying to like many types of cheese. So the stinkier, the blue cheese, I’m not quite there yet. But since my 20s, I’ve been trying to eat more, trying to like more cheeses. And I know that this is crazy when it comes to most of the foodies that I know. It’s always been my Achilles heel, not really having a taste for cheese growing up. I don’t know why.

What are a few cookbooks that make your life better?

I love Marcella Hazan’s Essentials of Italian Cooking. I love Elizabeth Andoh’s Washoku, home style Japanese cooking. I learned so much from these books. They’re so comprehensive and they take such a deep dive into all these classic recipes from a culture that I didn’t grow up eating. I definitely love eating. So those are some really great staples. But on that similar note, I love to collect really great books about fill-in-the-blank regions. I have a really great book about Portugal right now, I have a great book about Senegal, all through the lens of food. So bring it on. Every single country I want to collect a cookbook of.

What song or album just makes you want to cook?

Lately, I’ve been listening to lot of Latin Boogaloo, so I will say Joe Bataan’s Riot! right now. It’s just so much fun, it’s groovy, 60s Latin, New York jazz. It’s awesome.

On Keeping Posted with Cathy:

Cathy Erway of Not Eating Out in New York on The Dinner Special podcast talking about how to keep posted with her.

Check me out on Twitter. Also go to noteatingoutinny.com.

Eat Your Words on Heritage Radio Network. So it’s heritageradionetwork.org. You just click on the shows, find mine. And check out others, too. They’re awesome.

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Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: ABCDs of Cooking, Blogger, Cathy Erway, Cookbook Author, Eat Your Words, Elizabeth Andoh, Essentials of Italian Cooking, Food Writer, Food52, Freeganism, Heritage Radio Network, hertiageradionetwork.org, Joe Bataan, Lucky Peach, Marc Matsumoto, Marcella Hazan, No Recipes, Nora Pouillon, Not Eating Out in New York, Podcast, Roberta's Pizza, Sandor Ellix Katz, Snacky Tunes, Taiwan, Taiwanese Cooking, The Art of Eating In, The Art of Fermentation, The Food of Taiwan, Washoku, Wild Fermentation

049: Julia Gartland: Being Self-Taught and Going Gluten-Free

June 15, 2015 by Gabriel Leave a Comment

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about how to keep posted on her
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Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about being a self-taught cook and baker and going gluten-free.

Sassy Kitchen

Julia is a self-taught cook and baker, photographer, food stylist and recipe developer. On her blog, Sassy Kitchen, she shares gluten-free seasonal recipes and is always on the lookout for the best gluten-free version of everything. Sassy Kitchen was a finalist in the 2014 Saveur Blog Awards for Best Special Diets Blog and is a finalist again in 2015 for Best Photography.

I am so happy to have Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen here on the show today.

(*All images below are Julia’s.)

On Her Interest in Cooking and Food:

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about her interest in cooking and food.

I liked to always cook and bake as a kid, I think it wasn’t anything too crazy but I loved having independence, being able to do that. I got more seriously into food later when I had health and digestive problems and I had to find a way to feed myself.

I found out I was gluten intolerant and decided to go vegan at the same time, so my options were very limited and I felt kind of inspired by those restrictions. It gave me the opportunity to try so many new foods and stuff.

I was always into food. I liked eating really healthy. I was raised in California. I loved hippy food and Mexican and I was always really into it, but it took a turn when it became more about health.

I don’t know if I had any real cooking mentors in my early days. I definitely think I was inspired by the issues that I had with western medicine. I remember the first time I went to a western doctor with all of my issues and I had all these PDF printouts of everything I’d been eating. He didn’t even want to look at it and just said, “Here’s some medication. You have IBS,” and sent me on my way.

I just felt like there’s something bigger going on than this. I totally believe that food is an opportunity to heal yourself and that was what got me into it in a really real way.

On Learning to Cook:

I was definitely forced to learn to cook it a new way because of my dietary issues. But through that, I really fell in love with food and I wanted to be completely absorbed in it. That’s a really good way to learn anything.

I find such inspiration from cookbooks and food blogs. Like finding someone who’s really committed to a certain way of cooking, whether it’s a cultural or otherwise, someone like Ottolenghi who has a very specific sense of food that’s so seductive and wonderful but it’s also really easy when you’re really into it.

Obviously, most of us are trying to feed ourselves. I feel like a lot of home cooks are super worried. How do you cook it? What do you do with it? They forget the aspect of play, it should be fun. It’s also not that hard.

I think generally not taking yourself so seriously. It’s okay if you make something that’s a disaster although it probably won’t be. Don’t be afraid, try new things, read cookbooks, follow recipes, pay attention and cook as much as you can.

I’m a fan of things like give yourself parameters on certain nights. Have a taco Tuesday, so you’re like, “I know I’m making tacos tonight” and you can just decide what kind of taco and then that can be the fun aspect.

On Kitchen Experiments Not Going as Planned:

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about kitchen experiments not going as planned

I have a really good infamous one.

The first time I decided I was going to cook a whole fish was for a pescetarian Thanksgiving that I was hosting. Martha and Ina are scowling at me right now because it’s the cardinal rule of hosting to never test a new recipe. But I decided to do it and I took the fish out. It’s perfectly cooked but I had no idea how to de-bone it. I was like, “I can’t serve this to people,” and I literally just left it on the stove top and I was like, “Sorry, guys. We’re actually not having fish tonight.” And I just went on.

I was just like, “Well, I guess it’s just vegetarian, so sorry about that.”

I mean, with gluten-free baking, there’s so many. It’s just like too many to know but it always happens. It happens to everyone.

On Some Go-To Resources for Learning to Cook and Bake:

When I first started cooking and baking, I was vegan and gluten-free so my sources were super specific. But in general, I think I would recommend sources like Bon Appetite, Epicurious, The Kitchn, and Food52. They seem to have really good articles that demystify cooking and they go over actual techniques in a way that teaches you the fundamentals.

A few of them have a lot of articles about cooking without a recipe and stuff like that. It teaches you how to cook on the fly. I just think those are really helpful resources for sure.

On Starting Her Blog:

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about starting her blog

When I first went gluten-free, the best and most helpful sources were definitely food blogs. That was where I was finding all of my recipes and information. They were such a godsend at the time and through the process of changing my diet and trying new things, I craved to have the same platform to share my experiences.

I went to school for photography. I went to Parsons in New York. I was not shooting food or even still life at the time. Food or food photography was not on my radar at all, in any professional way. But through doing the blog and loving it as much as I did, I found people were really responding to that work.

The first time I ever showed food work in a class at school, the guest teacher offered me a job shooting for a magazine. So I thought maybe I should pursue this a little further.

I started in photography but I will say food photography is completely different. I was not immediately good at it. I had to work. It’s a total learning curve and it’s a lot harder than it looks I will say.

On Gluten-Free Foods:

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about Gluten-Free foods

Well, I’m sure everyone’s heard of it by now. It’s a big buzz word since it’s on every product now, even hummus, which has always been gluten-free says gluten-free on it. But it’s technically the elastic protein in wheat, it’s what makes pizza and croissant so lovely and it can also be in all of these other products like soy sauce and dressings, which it doesn’t necessarily need to be there.

That’s when I think it gets tricky for people and they don’t understand what it is. But there’s also a huge variety of gluten-free grains and products to choose from. I just saw the other day a quinoa kale puff popcorn product.

Now is the time to be gluten-free because there’s just everything. Rice is gluten-free, all rice products are gluten-free. A lot of people don’t know that. I get asked that all the time.

When in doubt, a piece of meat is always going to be gluten-free unless it’s battered. It’s like there’s a certain aspect of logic to it, but it is tricky for sure.

I do feel a lot better than I used to. Eating this way definitely suits me. I have some moments where I’m reminded of all the pain and discomfort I used to feel all the time. So I’m definitely happiest when my diet’s pretty strict and pure. That being said, it’s still not perfect. I don’t feel absolutely amazing and energized every single day, but it’s constantly evolving with what I feel best eating.

On Gluten-Free Ingredients:

There are so many, especially with the baking. I’m obsessed with gluten-free baking flours.

My favorites of all time are definitely sorghum flour, which I discovered super early on. Brown rice flour, almond flour, buckwheat flour, garbanzo bean flour, anything like that. There are so many.

Even cornmeal, things that you wouldn’t think of as being gluten-free are so amazing to cook and bake with. And then things maybe you wouldn’t have heard of are things that you use kind of to mimic gluten like xanthan gum and potato starch and tapioca flour.

But they’re so fun. Even if you’re not gluten-free, baking with buckwheat or something like that, it’s just a new thing you wouldn’t maybe go towards.

Buckwheat is this dark grayish tint and it’s very beautiful when you bake with it. And I love almond flour. I buy five pound bags of it off of Amazon. I use it very quickly. I love anything with almond flour. It’s super good and they all have a very lovely different flavor.

On Some Good Gluten-Free Cooking and Baking Resources:

I love La Tartine Gourmande and Cannelle et Vanille are both really amazing sources of inspiration. I highly recommend both of their books, especially Small Plates and Sweet Treats by Aran Goyoaga. She’s a trained pastry chef and she has this amazing Basque influence on all her recipes. They’re super great.

Also, Bojon Gourmet. She’s another ex-pastry chef and she has a ton of super great gluten-free recipes as well.

The Pressure Cooker:

Which food shows or cooking shows do you watch?

Well I don’t really watch any shows besides Ina obviously, but I need to stop name dropping.

But I’m the biggest podcast person, I love America’s Test Kitchen. I’ve such a soft spot for them and I feel like no one gets how great they are. I love Splendid Table and Heritage Radio Network and Good Food on KCRW, and obviously, The Dinner Special as well.

What are some food blogs or food websites we have to know about?

I am in love with Amy Chaplin. I recently got her book and went through like a food renaissance ’cause her recipes are just so lovely. I so recommend her and her blog is amazing.

And you know, I keep coming back to Heidi Swanson of 101 Cookbooks. She’s still so relevant and amazing and I’m always inspired by her essence. She’s living my dream life.

Who do you follow on Pinterest, Instagram, or Facebook that make you happy?

Well, I’m huge into Instagram. That’s my favorite thing. So on and Instagram, I recently followed the chicks from Broad City who are super fun.

I’ve mostly been loving non-food ones lately, like Sight Unseen and Academy of New York. And Niche is a great one where they just post quotes from creative artists and all that stuff. And Official Sean Penn, which is just funny and great.

What is the most unusual or treasured item in your kitchen?

I love everything in my kitchen.

I’m constantly trying to get rid of stuff because I live in New York and that’s just the life, but I love everything in my kitchen. My favorite things are probably . . . my boyfriend has gotten me ceramics as gifts over the years. That was one of the first things he ever bought me and they’re definitely my treasured pieces.

Name one ingredient you used to dislike but now you love.

Capers and olives I hated until I was probably 20 years old, but now, I almost always have them in my fridge. I love them.

I think I was not into that brininess and then I went to Spain with my family and they served green olives on every table like it’s bread. I kept trying, thinking if I keep trying it, maybe something will click and it did. So keep trying!

What are a few cookbooks that make your life better?

I love anything by Nigel Slater, Alice Waters, The Canal House Cookbooks. And as I mentioned before, Amy Chaplin and I love Mimi Thorisson’s new book.

What song or album just makes you want to cook?

It’s gotta be something on the up-side.

There’s always music in my house. My boyfriend’s a musician. He’s constantly manning the record player. But for cooking, I think Elvis Costello always puts me in a good mood.

On Keeping Posted on Julia:

Julia Gartland of Sassy Kitchen on The Dinner Special podcast talking about how to keep posted on her

On my blog, Sassy-Kitchen.com and Sassy Kitchen on all handles I guess. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, I’m on it all.

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Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: 101 Cookbooks, 2014 Saveur Food Blog Awards, 2015 Saveur Food Blog Awards, Academy of New York, Alice Waters, America's Test Kitchen, Amy Chaplin, Aran Goyoaga, Bojon Gourmet, Bon Appetite, Broad City, Cannelle et Vanille, Elvis Costello, Epicurious, Food Blog, Food Blogger, Food52, Gluten-Free, Good Food, Heidi Swanson, Heritage Radio Network, Ina Garten, Julia Gartland, KCRW, La Tartine Gourmande, Martha Stewart, Mimi Thorisson, New York, Nigel Slater, Official Sean Penn, Parsons, Photographer, Sassy Kitchen, Sight Unseen, Small Plates and Sweet Treats, Splendid Table, The Canal House, The Kitchn, Vegan

Hello! I'm Gabriel Soh, home cook, food enthusiast and your host of The Dinner Special podcast.
Everything here on The Dinner Special is an experiment, just like with cooking. Thank you for listening and being part of the adventure.

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